Originally posted by Aperture Doktor in Neurotoxin:

I started an arguement about what I strongly feel to be an unbalanced weapon

Is all i have to say.

Originally posted by Sebster22:

Originally posted by Aperture Doktor in Neurotoxin:

I started an arguement about what I strongly feel to be an unbalanced weapon

Is all i have to say.

It was a mistake on my part, I was askinging if anyone felt it was unbalanced and it escalated from there.

I haven't played Engineer as much since people started abusing it. Engineer is really boring if you gotta stand right next to your stuff the whole round.

I have 2 stratigies to counter this weapon. 1 hit the sentries AT ALL TIMES. 2 there is no other stratigies.

Originally posted by His Dudeness:

I haven't played Engineer as much since people started abusing it. Engineer is really boring if you gotta stand right next to your stuff the whole round.

That's why I dislike it, I try to space my buildings out to keep my team more effeciently running but the RTR main counter is to huddle in a little sheild of buildings.

All Valve needs to do is fix the degrade time, its impossible to stop a building from downgrading one level once the sapper is on it (except with teleporters for some reason)

I find that Niichts voices this fairly well.
http://youtu.be/-P9o7ExbQt4?t=3m8s

It's pretty simple. The game is called TEAM Fortress 2. You know that guy called Pyro? Ask one with a Homewrecker or a Neon Annhilator to guard your buildings. Very simple. Obviously, this requires you work with a friend... or perhaps have a friend in the first place. Perhaps there will be more counters in the future... but the Pyro IS the hard counter to the Spy.

Originally posted by RigBone:

It's pretty simple. The game is called TEAM Fortress 2. You know that guy called Pyro? Ask one with a Homewrecker or a Neon Annhilator to guard your buildings. Very simple. Obviously, this requires you work with a friend... or perhaps have a friend in the first place. Perhaps there will be more counters in the future... but the Pyro IS the hard counter to the Spy.

I do like this, and would love to see more Pyro's doing with this, but most people seem to be more willing to be the 8th Sniper, or W+M1.

Originally posted by Aperture Doktor in Neurotoxin:

Originally posted by RigBone:

It's pretty simple. The game is called TEAM Fortress 2. You know that guy called Pyro? Ask one with a Homewrecker or a Neon Annhilator to guard your buildings. Very simple. Obviously, this requires you work with a friend... or perhaps have a friend in the first place. Perhaps there will be more counters in the future... but the Pyro IS the hard counter to the Spy.

I do like this, and would love to see more Pyro's doing with this, but most people seem to be more willing to be the 8th Sniper, or W+M1.

I love being Pyro because of all the supporty things I can do with him.

Originally posted by RigBone:

It's pretty simple. The game is called TEAM Fortress 2. You know that guy called Pyro? Ask one with a Homewrecker or a Neon Annhilator to guard your buildings. Very simple. Obviously, this requires you work with a friend... or perhaps have a friend in the first place. Perhaps there will be more counters in the future... but the Pyro IS the hard counter to the Spy.

Two versus one should not be required to nullify, or in this case, minimize the damage of a single player in a scenario where no player has been outplayed. They need to fix the glitch, and then it's perfectly fine; until then, the removal of Red Tape Recorders gives no possibility for the Engineer to win if a single building is inflicted with the Red Tape Recorder, while if it's attached to two buildings then no victory is possible at all.

My opinion:
The one time I used it, I felt evil.

Originally posted by RigBone:

It's pretty simple. The game is called TEAM Fortress 2. You know that guy called Pyro? Ask one with a Homewrecker or a Neon Annhilator to guard your buildings. Very simple. Obviously, this requires you work with a friend... or perhaps have a friend in the first place. Perhaps there will be more counters in the future... but the Pyro IS the hard counter to the Spy.

That still doesn't fix the broken-fast degrade time.

The Spy doesn't have to get out of there alive if he just manages to throw the Red Tape Recorder at your Sentry and die after that, it's still an inevitable delevel no matter how many Pyroes you had guarding your Sentry gun.
That might allow the Spy's team to push onward and possibly win the round just due the fact that RTR is a broken weapon, which can not be countered in any way as of now.

Red Tape Recorder is the biggest reason I haven't really felt like playing Engineer as of late even though it used to be my main class, because I enjoyed being "in control" of my team with carefully planned teleport and dispenser placement to help the team advance onward while having my Sentry gun ensure we won't get suddenly pushed back.
Engineer can deal quite a high damage with Shotgun so I occasionally used to move away from my Sentry to help my team push. With RTR in the play that's unfortunately not possible anymore since the degrade time is simply too fast.

I can see why inexperienced Spies defend it since it makes their job a lot easier but as a person who mostly plays Engineer, I don't it's a fair counter.

Originally posted by Sqmppq:

With RTR in the play that's unfortunately not possible anymore since the degrade time is simply too fast.

The irony of that statement is that even if you stick next to your Sentry, that's actually the area the Red Tape Recorder should excel in; dealing some damage without completely destroying buildings, but the problem it that it's so efficient the Stock Sapper is a straight downgrade. A level two or one is surprisingly easier to take down by a fair bit of classes, and due to the removal of Dispenser Metal and levels, well... You can't upgrade easily, depending on location.

The Red Tape Recorder screws an Engineer who roams around his Sentry, and it simply screws him a little less if he sticks next to his Sentry; sadly, it excels at dealing with multiple Sentries in a tight formation. It's what it was designed to counter, an Engineer camping next to his Sentry, but when that method is the most efficient manner for an Engineer to counter the weapon, well... There's a clear unbalance there.

Originally posted by Octavia:

I can see what Valve wanted to achieve with the Red Tape Recorder since there are certain situations where even an Über might not be enough to get rid of a Sentry nest and the quick degrading of a Sentry and a Dispenser might be just what the enemy team needs to break the defenses, but the way the weapon functions right now is just asking for Spies to headlessly W+M1 towards the buildings for guaranteed destruction and there is no way for Engineer to counter it.

In my opinion the only "fix" to Red Tape Recorder is significantly slowing down it's degrade time. I know nerfing RTR could make it completely useless but I would much rather play a balanced game with fewer weapons than an unbalanced game with more weapons.

Or if nerfing the Red Tape Recorder is not an option, give Engineer a build tool that will instantly place level three buildings.